Re: Identity and becoming a Great Old One

From: Russell Wallace (
Date: Fri Jan 27 2006 - 16:46:05 MST

On 1/27/06, Michael <> wrote:
> It could be seen as that, since our most important works are ourselves.

Well, "since you determined how it would be, you had power over it, and it
is you" would seem to imply that if you write a book for example, and it
survives indefinitely, this is a form of immortality? (I'm not saying this
view is right or wrong, just checking whether it is your view.)

A better way of explaing it is; suppose we discard the idea of a broad
> self. Then we have a phase-space of entitys lasting for mere instants
> (possibly longer if it is static).
> Then the real question becomes; why should one entity be loyal towards any
> particular future entity?

Some people want personal survival for its own sake (myself included, though
it isn't my highest value).

A more general idea would be that you should be loyal to those future
entities which share or contribute to your values; that would seem to be
consistent with your thinking.

Pragmaticism, the entitys which it has power over, are those through which
> it can acheive it's goals(this is where I stretch it a bit).

This would seem consistent with the "entities which share or contribute to
your values" idea above.

> I wouldn't view a static utopia as desirable. Whether a continuous loop
> Well I could use the word perfect or eternal utopia instead, if a pattern
> is you, and surviving is good, then it follows that preserving the pattern
> is desirable.

"Perfect" and "utopia" are rather vague concepts, I think I'd need to see a
more detailed proposal for one before I could really comment on it.

> could reasonably be called "static" depends on the length of the loop
> > (consider for example a loop of length 2^N where N is the number of bits
> > describing a particular mind state within some broad category).
> >
> > - Russell
> I don't understand the maths, do you mean; the loop is larger than just
> the mind, or that it grows as the mind grows.

Well, let's suppose you go into a loop, but the loop is, say, 10^30
subjective years long before you start repeating yourself, and the total
number of thoughts and experiences you have during those 10^30 years are
much larger than could fit into your mind at any one time; I suppose that
would count as "the loop is larger than just the mind".

- Russell

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