From: Aaron McBride (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Sun Oct 20 2002 - 02:33:34 MDT
You're sidestepping the issue a bit, but I'll try to be clearer.
At 10:35 PM 10/19/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>I am not at all a suicidal person.
That's nice to hear. :)
> However, some claim that I owe other people continuing to live even if
> I find no happiness in it would be enough to put many over the edge.
There was no mention of "no happiness." But... if you are arguing that
suicide is a natural right in the case of life with "no happiness", then
I'd say that you have a natural right to pursue happiness, but ending your
life is not a rational way of attaining happiness.
> That is about the most vicious collectivist statement I have seen in
> some time.
Is that good or bad? I'm confused. (on one hand, it doesn't seem that bad
to me, so maybe you're saying that collectivistims isn't that bad
either... but that seems to contradict the tone of your message. hmmm)
> I don't live for others to draw value from me. I live because living
> itself is of value to me. I contribute out of strength, joy and wanting
> to make a difference. I don't do so because I am enslaved by some "duty"
> to others.
Ok, that's fine for you... you're not suicidal. You have a reason to live
that is greater than your "duty to others". That's how it should be. But
what about people who are suicidal? How does terminating ones life give
them more freedom or happiness? You should have the right to do with your
life what you want SHORT OF interfering with other people's rights to do
what they want AND ending your own life. Your duty to others does not
enslave you, it frees you to continue living, to continue pursuing happiness.
> Seeing it as duty where even such a personal and fundamental decision
> as whether to live or die is determined by the collective is a very dark
> way to look at life and the world.
That's just it. Suicide isn't only personal. It affects the people around
you, usually negatively. Oh, and I never suggested that the collective
should decide when you die. We're not talking about murder here... it's
more like anti-murder.
I just want to make it clear. I'm not saying that suicide is definitely
not a natural right, just that I doubt that it is. I have tried to provide
some examples of why I see it as unnatural. I'm not even sure that there
is such a thing as a "natural right", but I didn't want my silence to be
taken as agreement with the statement that I quoted in my original
post. Please don't take my future silence on this topic as
agreement. I'll be in the chat room frequently to discuss this further.
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