Re: [sl4] Uploads, slavery, concerts and fair trade

From: Dagon Gmail (
Date: Tue Feb 03 2009 - 01:42:14 MST

> > Let's start at creating a VERY robost system where people have
> inalienable
> > rights. All people. And then link
> > those inalienable rights to legal tools. And then allow all people, no
> > matter how despicable, access to guarantees.
> I assume you want one of these rights to be to have kids. Lets say
> some people are believing in a meme-set/religion that incites them to
> have a lot of kids, and make sure their kids believe in the same thing
> that they do.
> Wouldnt this bring us back to your own definition of the distant
> past:"The tribe that had a system that allowed them to breed faster
> generally won."?

I see your argument and I agree this is a conundrum

Problem is - NO - I do not want any kids, I have lobbied actively for
population controls. I am
squarely for requiring parents, especially in densely populated areas, to
require a certificate
or licence to have children, and to use the full force of the state to
connect consequences to
the parents having offspring thoughtlessly, including the parents making
significant investments
in the children, and having the burder of proof the children are raised
within the (ever tightening)
boundaries of society and good citizenship. For parents that get a licence
and prove they are
planning for offspring, this burden should be relaxed.

But even then, I would be in favor of (and support with my single democratic
vote and right to
organize in political entities) considering having children and transferring
inheritable diseases,
while the parents could reasonably be expceted to know they are (like - a
gene test costs
 <100$ or euro) having the children would be tantamount to severe physical
abuse. Parents
who KNOWINGLY have children that are likely to inherit genetic afflictions
are to be considered
guilty of the same, but premeditated. I dont want anyone in a prison for
such a crime (and I
am largely against prisons) but I do demand consequences to someone abusing

And yes - I am for limits on growth. I can see getting a license to breed in
Nebraska (with the
above caveat - inheritable low cognitive ability is a genetic disorder)
being a bit easier to
realise than one in midtown manhattan. I want global populations to decrease
- and if the
tools were able to realise this, specifically in the third world.

And before anyone accuses me of anything - this includes me. I have a
genetic disease and
inherited a rather painful combination from both parents. Hence I have
actively refrained from
even considering having children because I would consider having offspring
that potentially have
the genetic disorder I am suffering from to be physical abuse.

A tribal procreative model incidentally, has LONG SINCE become outdated.
Right now I assert
that a country with a populace breeding beyond cautious replacement levels
is setting itself up
for a cataclysmic collapse. That includes many african and middle east
countries. In a few
years not even 20% of adult (male!) populations in some of these countries
will have the means
to get meaningful employment. I regard this as an unmitigated disaster and I
am very certain
these countries will leverage off the cost of their unbridled breeding on
the rich countries.

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