**From:** Samantha Atkins (*sjatkins@gmail.com*)

**Date:** Sat Aug 14 2004 - 03:25:12 MDT

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On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:04:34 +0100 (BST), Simon Gordon

<sim_dizzy@yahoo.com> wrote:

*> --- Samantha Atkins <sjatkins@gmail.com> wrote:
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*> > Math is the abstraction of the way logically
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*> coherent systems work. If it did not map well to the
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*> > Universe then the Universe would be incoherent
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*> > chaos. That it isn't doesn't make it permissible
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*> to claim that such coherence itself is a manifestation
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*> of the abstraction for expressing,
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*> > capturing, manipulating coherent algorithms and
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*> > relationships..
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*>
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*> There are some semantic issues here: when someone
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*> makes a statement like "the universe is a
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*> manifestation of mathematics" they are talking about
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*> mathematics as a noun. "Mathematics" in this case
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*> should be read as "the platonic reality" or "the
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*> domain of all abstract entities". It should be noted
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*> that there are plenty of abstract entities which we
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*> would not consider to be mathematical, but would
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*> nevertheless be included in the ideal platonic domain.
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I am not a Platonist.

*> Yes its hardcore platonism and i admire your zealous
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*> doubt of it, but i think if you did a survey of
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*> sl4ers, most would concurr that this is by far the
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*> most intuitive way of philosophizing mathematics.
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If the above is what you mean by "philosophizing mathematics" then I

don't find it at all useful for more than intellectual entertainment.

I don't see what that what most sl4ers may concur on has anything to

do with the question.

*> To
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*> see mathematics as simply an adjective, a process by
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*> which humans analyse the reality around them, is to
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*> underestimate the coherence of the world around us and
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*> overestimate its distinctiveness amongst all possible
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*> worlds.
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That is not what I did. I am attempting to point out that the

universe is not a manifestation of mathematics in that the universe is

not generated from, composed of, or derived from mathematics.

Mathematics (n) did not manifest it.

- samantha

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