RE: SIAI's flawed friendliness analysis

From: Rafal Smigrodzki (
Date: Thu Jun 05 2003 - 15:52:28 MDT

Ben wrote:
>> ### I'd say that deep, real human happiness may be a special case of
>> successful volition.
> There is a strong relationship, but i'm not sure the one is a
> subclass of the other... Deep happiness may have a volitional and an
> involuntary/unconscious component??

### I agree. The qualifications "deep" and "real" make for very fuzzy
meaning in this case... some would say that real happiness must stem from a
free will, some would define otherwise.


>> What would be the examples of self-determined minds (aside from minds
>> limiting the self-determination of other minds) that are morally
>> repugnant?

> How about a mind that is self-determined to torment itself? Or
> self-determined to find others who are confused enough to want to be
> tormented, and torment them?

### I assume that "confused" here means insufficiently or falsely informed
about the world, so much so as to desire experiences that a better-informed
person of the same general outlook would reject. E.g. some flagellants do it
because they simply don't know about Bayesian reasoning and the bigger
intellectual world around them. In that case the latter possibility you
mention could be interpreted as a form of fraud, using somebody's
insufficient knowledge to take advantage of him, instead of discharging
one's duty of sharing information (which exists IMO in some situations,
dictated by Rawlsian reciprocity). So again, this would be an indirect,
sneaky form of limiting self-determination, and only as such truly


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