From: Simon Gordon (sim_dizzy@yahoo.com)
Date: Sun Apr 27 2003 - 10:09:29 MDT
--- Paul Hughes <psiphius@yahoo.com> wrote: >
> --- Simon Gordon <sim_dizzy@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Can a world which you have just imagined, like an
> > abstract fantasy world be measured? No. So by
> > following Ben's pragmatic philosophy it isnt real
> -
> > and i am quite happy with that -- so long as you
> > dont
> > mention the word existance, because im quite
> > convinced
> > that each imaginable unreal world does in fact
> have
> > its own seperate existance, its existance is just
> as
> > objective and absolute as a pure mathematical
> > structure like our universe or the number 3.
>
> Objective? Absolute? Hardly. Please tell me at
> which
> point internal reality ends, and external reality
> begins. Quantum indeterminancy rules out any kind
> of
> absolute objective reality.
>
> Paul Hughes
>
Quantum indeterminancy does not apply to mathematics
Paul. You are looking at everything from the (in my
view limited) perspective that the Quantum-Mechanics
multiverse is all that exists. If you are a "piercean
pragmatist" they you could say that this is your
internal reality since the QM multiverse seems to
contain the extensive and only set of entities which
can interfere with your subjective reality in a
physically measurable way. You could then go on to
define your external reality as that which you cannot
measure or which cannot affect you physically. From
this definition there are things in this very universe
which supposedly exist in your external reality such
that which exists outside of your own lightcone.
Denying that the otherworldly/imaginary universes
exist is like saying that any of the universe beyond
your own lightcone does not exist, confining existance
to only that which can affect you in a real way.
In terms of "objective reality" , in my terminology
this is an oxymoron: reality is subjective, existance
is objective - and by "reality" i am referring to your
subjective reality. But yes, the number 3 is
objective, all computer software is objective, our
universe is objective, unreal fantasy worlds are
objective; they are all objective in the existential
sense. Every logically consistent system has necessary
existance, and this entire ensemble can be viewed
objectively because none of it can disappear or be
altered by subjectivity, it remains perfect, immutable
and absolute. Logic does indeed have this special
property of being absolute and it is quite independent
of the affairs of the QM universes, which are a
special case of the metaverse with their own special
laws of quantum physics.
You have to remember that there ARE clockwork
deterministic universes out there (for example :
conway's game of life) even if we are not in one. Some
would also argue that the QM multiverse itself evolves
as a whole in a deterministic manner, though i dont
believe anyone is yet in a position to verify this one
way or the other, either experimentally or through
analytical reasoning.
The less confining you do, the broader your
perspective is. Accepting that everything exists in
the broadest possible sense gives more plausibility to
the anthropic principle which is currently the only
theory which seems to answer the question of: Why?
Simon.
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