**From:** Lee Corbin (*lcorbin@rawbw.com*)

**Date:** Sat Jun 28 2008 - 02:07:00 MDT

**Next message:**Lee Corbin: "Re: [sl4] Evolutionary Explanation: Why It Wants Out"**Previous message:**Lee Corbin: "Re: [sl4] YouMayWantToLetMeOut"**In reply to:**John K Clark: "Re: [sl4] Re: More silly but friendly ideas"**Next in thread:**John K Clark: "Re: [sl4] Re: More silly but friendly ideas"**Reply:**John K Clark: "Re: [sl4] Re: More silly but friendly ideas"**Messages sorted by:**[ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] [ attachment ]

John Clark writes

*>> In 1930, Gödel proved his Completeness* theorem,
*

*>> showing that first order logic (without that
*

*>> axiomatized arithmetical component!) is both
*

*>> sound (anything you prove really is true)
*

*>
*

*> That is true, there are no contradictions in first order logic.
*

*>
*

*>> and complete (if it's true, you can prove it).
*

*>
*

*> BULLSHIT! First order logic is not even powerful enough to even do
*

*> arithmetic
*

Listen, John, I didn't want to give the entire explanation of

what "completeness" is because it contains many qualifying

phrases pertaining to model theory and so on. What "if it's

true, then you can prove it" means "any logical consequence

of the theory has a deduction in the theory". I'm sure you

knew that.

OF COURSE it does not mean that everything in the universe

that is "true" (on whatever theory of truth you like) can be

proven in pure first order logic (first order logic without

arithmetic). You can't be *that* desperate to denounce as

BULLSHIT some portion of what someone says,

or can you?

Lee

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