From: Matt Mahoney (matmahoney@yahoo.com)
Date: Thu Jan 24 2008 - 10:48:27 MST
--- x@extropica.org wrote:
> On Jan 23, 2008 6:03 PM, Matt Mahoney <matmahoney@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > --- x@extropica.org wrote:
> >
> > > On Jan 23, 2008 4:28 PM, Matt Mahoney <matmahoney@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > --- x@extropica.org wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > In my opinion there is a straightforward argument based on economics
> > > > > for why it's unlikely we would exist in someone's simulation. That
> is
> > > > > that extracting meaning is inherently expensive, and like the
> entropic
> > > > > arrow, it will always generally pay better for an agent to look
> > > > > forward than behind.
> > > >
> > > > Who said there was "someone" running the simulation?
> > >
> > > How can there be a "simulation" without intent to simulate?
> > > How can there be intent without agency?
> >
> > We know nothing about the simulating universe. We cannot assume that
> there is
> > any "intent" to simulate. The concept of intention could be meaningless.
> >
> > Ultimately it could be just a mathematical model, the set N of integers,
> where
> > each element maps to a program.
>
> If all you're saying is that the nature of reality appears to be
> describable in mathematical terms, then I don't see that your claim
> has any information content; no surprise whatsoever so long after
> Wigner's statement about the "unreasonable effectiveness of
> mathematics." From an anthropic perspective how could nature not
> demonstrate mathematical regularity?
>
> But "simulation" [cf. Bostrom], entails more than you apparently
> intended [cf. Seth Lloyd et al].
>
> Or am I missing something here?
Without making assumptions about the "purpose" of the simulation, I think that
the best we can do is guess a Solomonoff distribution of possible simulations
consistent with our observations. With regard to Bostrom, I think it is
unlikely that our descendants will run ancestor simulations. I think this
scenario is an attempt to guess something about the outside universe, which we
can't do.
-- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@yahoo.com
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