**From:** Phil Goetz (*philgoetz@yahoo.com*)

**Date:** Thu Aug 18 2005 - 09:43:53 MDT

**Next message:**Phil Goetz: "Switch-flipping (Re: On the dangers of AI)"**Previous message:**Ben Goertzel: "RE: Shock Level 5 (SL5) - 'The Theory Of Everything'"**In reply to:**Marc Geddes: "RE: Shock Level 5 (SL5) - 'The Theory Of Everything'"**Next in thread:**Simon Belak: "Re: Goedel's theorem doesn't apply to robots (RE: SL5)"**Reply:**Simon Belak: "Re: Goedel's theorem doesn't apply to robots (RE: SL5)"**Reply:**Thomas Buckner: "Re: Goedel's theorem doesn't apply to robots (RE: SL5)"**Maybe reply:**Dimitry Volfson: "Re: Goedel's theorem doesn't apply to robots (RE: SL5)"**Maybe reply:**Dimitry Volfson: "Re: Goedel's theorem doesn't apply to robots (RE: SL5)"**Messages sorted by:**[ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] [ attachment ]

*> --- Ben Goertzel <ben@goertzel.org> wrote:
*

*>
*

*> > Godelian arguments can show, at most, that for any
*

*> > finite computational
*

*> > system there is some limit (of theorem-proving
*

*> > power) beyond which
*

*> > self-improvement can't lead the system.
*

Can Goedelian arguments show ANYTHING

about systems that interact with the real world?

Goedel's theorem is about proofs. Every step of

the proof takes place within a logic system.

Systems that interact with the world, at some point,

are receiving data that was not generated within

that logic systems. Observation of that data may

enable the system to arrive at conclusions that

could not be made by logical operations within

that logic system.

In other words, what a robot does is more like

performing proofs within a logic system that has

access to an oracle. Clearly Goedel's incompleteness

theorem can't apply to a system that has an oracle.

- Phil Goetz

__________________________________

Yahoo! Mail for Mobile

Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.

http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail

**Next message:**Phil Goetz: "Switch-flipping (Re: On the dangers of AI)"**Previous message:**Ben Goertzel: "RE: Shock Level 5 (SL5) - 'The Theory Of Everything'"**In reply to:**Marc Geddes: "RE: Shock Level 5 (SL5) - 'The Theory Of Everything'"**Next in thread:**Simon Belak: "Re: Goedel's theorem doesn't apply to robots (RE: SL5)"**Reply:**Simon Belak: "Re: Goedel's theorem doesn't apply to robots (RE: SL5)"**Reply:**Thomas Buckner: "Re: Goedel's theorem doesn't apply to robots (RE: SL5)"**Maybe reply:**Dimitry Volfson: "Re: Goedel's theorem doesn't apply to robots (RE: SL5)"**Maybe reply:**Dimitry Volfson: "Re: Goedel's theorem doesn't apply to robots (RE: SL5)"**Messages sorted by:**[ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] [ attachment ]

*
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5
: Wed Jul 17 2013 - 04:00:51 MDT
*