RE: Collective Volition, next take

From: Ben Goertzel (
Date: Mon Jul 25 2005 - 11:59:21 MDT

> On Sat, Jul 23, 2005 at 10:58:16PM +0100, Russell Wallace wrote:
> > What I can say is that _to the extent that the system forces
> > everyone to submit to the will of the Collective_ (as was implied
> > by the original paper, a position you seem to be partly retreating
> > from now - if you are retreating from that position, good), you're
> > proposing to create Hell.
> Collective Volition *NEVER* proposed that. "The will of the
> collective" and "the extrapolated volition of the collective" have
> little or nothing in common with each other.
> -Robin

But Robin, isn't

"the extrapolated vision of the collective"

basically a rephrasing of

"the will of the 'Collective Volition Extrapolation Machine' (as possibly
filtered by a Last Judge)"


I think that is what Russell meant by "the will of the Collective".

I don't agree with Russell that this is necessarilly Hell.

However, it is quite different than explicitly positing some particular
value (like e.g. some better-specified version of 'a reasonably degree of
freedom for sentients') as guidance for the post-Singularity uber-AI...

-- Ben

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