**From:** Thomas Buckner (*tcbevolver@yahoo.com*)

**Date:** Sun Oct 10 2004 - 08:26:54 MDT

**Next message:**Thomas Buckner: "Re: Human mind not Turing computable according to Eliezer?"**Previous message:**Ben Goertzel: "RE: Human mind not Turing computable according to Penrose?"**In reply to:**Robin Lee Powell: "Re: Human mind not Turing computable according to Eliezer?"**Next in thread:**Bill Hibbard: "Re: Human mind not Turing computable according to Eliezer?"**Messages sorted by:**[ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] [ attachment ]

--- Robin Lee Powell

<rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:

*> On Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 08:27:47PM +0200,
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*> Christian Szegedy wrote:
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*> > His argument is based on a proof by
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*> contradiction. It goes by:
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*> >
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*> >
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*> > 1) Assume that your brain can be modeled by a
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*> Turing machine
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*> > (This is true even if it is a finite
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*> state machine)
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*>
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*> Sorry, you can't make that leap. FSMs are
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*> strictly less powerful
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*> than Turing machines, and if our brains can be
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*> modelled by TMs, they
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*> can be modelled by FSMs (since they are
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*> finite). To have any
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*> convincing power at all, you must show that the
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*> problem applies to
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*> the least powerful thing that can be used to
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*> simulate our brains.
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*>
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*> -Robin
*

Another way to state this objection: Turing

machines are Infinite State Machines (since the

original Turing idea explicitly assumes an

infinitely long paper tape, for example). A true

Turing machine has or could have infinite memory

and infinite time for any operation.

Humans cannot model Infinite State Machines

because they are Finite State Machines, with

neither infinite memory nor infinite time to

perform operations.

An ISM, a Turing machine, *can* model a human.

Indeed it can model all humans at once and still

have infinite capacity left over.

The whole observable universe could be an

emulation on an ISM, still with infinite capacity

left over.

Tom Buckner

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**Next message:**Thomas Buckner: "Re: Human mind not Turing computable according to Eliezer?"**Previous message:**Ben Goertzel: "RE: Human mind not Turing computable according to Penrose?"**In reply to:**Robin Lee Powell: "Re: Human mind not Turing computable according to Eliezer?"**Next in thread:**Bill Hibbard: "Re: Human mind not Turing computable according to Eliezer?"**Messages sorted by:**[ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] [ attachment ]

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