**From:** Christian Szegedy (*szegedy@or.uni-bonn.de*)

**Date:** Fri Oct 08 2004 - 12:27:47 MDT

**Next message:**Robin Lee Powell: "Re: Human mind not Turing computable according to Eliezer?"**Previous message:**Bill Hibbard: "Re: Human mind not Turing computable according to Eliezer?"**In reply to:**Bill Hibbard: "Re: Human mind not Turing computable according to Eliezer?"**Next in thread:**Robin Lee Powell: "Re: Human mind not Turing computable according to Eliezer?"**Reply:**Robin Lee Powell: "Re: Human mind not Turing computable according to Eliezer?"**Reply:**Bill Hibbard: "Re: Human mind not Turing computable according to Eliezer?"**Reply:**Marc Geddes: "Re: Human mind not Turing computable according to Eliezer?"**Messages sorted by:**[ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] [ attachment ]

Bill Hibbard wrote:

*>But his argument depends on a property of Turing machines, namely
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*>the ability to do arithmetic with arbitrary integers, not shared
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*>by finite state machines. So his argument fails by assuming a
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*>capability that humans do not have.
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*>
*

No, he does not assume any capability. He *exhibits* a capability:

that you can decide something you are not supposed to be able to.

His argument is based on a proof by contradiction. It goes by:

1) Assume that your brain can be modeled by a Turing machine

(This is true even if it is a finite state machine)

2) Let us consider the following problem that this TM cannot

solve.

3) But, you can clearly solve it => Contradiction!!!

4) Since we had a contradiction, your brain cannot be modelled by a TM.

You cannot refute this line of argumentation by saying that our brain is

an FSM

changing his proof and say that the modified proof is flawed.

You must refute the *original proof*.

**Next message:**Robin Lee Powell: "Re: Human mind not Turing computable according to Eliezer?"**Previous message:**Bill Hibbard: "Re: Human mind not Turing computable according to Eliezer?"**In reply to:**Bill Hibbard: "Re: Human mind not Turing computable according to Eliezer?"**Next in thread:**Robin Lee Powell: "Re: Human mind not Turing computable according to Eliezer?"**Reply:**Robin Lee Powell: "Re: Human mind not Turing computable according to Eliezer?"**Reply:**Bill Hibbard: "Re: Human mind not Turing computable according to Eliezer?"**Reply:**Marc Geddes: "Re: Human mind not Turing computable according to Eliezer?"**Messages sorted by:**[ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] [ attachment ]

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