Re: Volitional Morality and Action Judgement

From: Samantha Atkins (
Date: Sat Jun 05 2004 - 00:29:31 MDT

On Jun 2, 2004, at 7:33 AM, Michael Wilson wrote:

> Mark Waser wrote:
>> I'm seeing a lot of debate between Eliezer and Ben where it's
>> devolved to the point where Eliezer is no longer willing to
>> fully engage with valid points.
> Ben is stubbornly holding to some fundamentally flawed ideas. There's
> no point repeating debates that have already occured several times if
> neither party is going to budge. Don't get fixated on Ben. You can
> watch Eliezer having amusing debates with other people too.

Bullshit. I have been watching these exchanges for quite some time.
Eliezer does devolve in his responses periodically. Sometimes he does
so to the point of being insulting and condescending when his points
and arguments are not obviously superior at all. It is not in the
least "amusing" when it gets to such a level. It is sickening and
extremely disappointing. As there are relatively few AGI folks around
it is quite irksome that this level of bitchiness is present. If FAI
is going to succeed it will require many willing minds not all of whom
are true-believers in the latest formulations from Eliezer.

>> I've noticed a lot of people asking for clarification where they
>> are going wrong and not receiving that clarification.
> The world slides inexorably closer to destruction every day.

Do you think it can be saved by insults?

> Seed AI
> programmers and funding are desperately needed. The really good
> people all seem to grasp the basics fine and proceed to argue about
> technical details off list.

You mean the people who think like you and perhaps Eliezer? Are you
sure that those are the only "really good people"? Is there some
reason I need to point out how much of a jerk you are being when you
make such a statement?

> This takes time, but it's worth responding
> because they're more likely to be useful. Meanwhile, few of the
> people wanting answers on SL4 seem to have large pocketbooks waiting
> to be opened. Given this situation, arguing about stuff on SL4 is fun
> but having the SIAI people spend a lot of time here isn't condusive
> to saving the world. Thus please forgive Eliezer, Tyler etc for not
> answering every question.

Not that it is any of your business but I have contributed sufficiently
to argue for at least a year by the current arbitrary rules. If you
are going to dismiss the people who are interested and bright but who
disagree just because they disagree then there is, of course, little
point in bothering to post or to donate either.

> The SIAI is composed of sane people who understand risk management
> and sensible precautions have been taken as far as possible.
> Furthermore as I'm sure you can imagine considerable discussion goes
> on appart from the SL4 mailing list (which I hesitate to refer to as
> the peanut gallery :) ).

So I guess you folks don't want any more peanuts. Best of luck. You
are going to need it.


This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Wed Jul 17 2013 - 04:00:47 MDT