Re: c * (positive qualia -negative qualia) + (1-c)* (total complexity of pattern)

From: Metaqualia (
Date: Tue Jan 06 2004 - 23:18:13 MST

> I agree that removing physical sources of negative qualia would be a good
> idea. Please, take headaches and upset stomachs away!!!

It's on my to-do list :)

> However, removing *emotional* sources of negative qualia seems more
> questionable... I'm afraid that would end up removing too much of the

What are emotional sources of negative qualia? I distinguish between complex
emotional responses (associated with behaviour and often including positive
and negative qualia) and the real qualia-creating process (qm stuff going on
in the microtubules? I have no clue). So within this terminology there is no
emotional source of negative qualia.

>For instance -- Don't take
>woman-troubles away, I'm worried they're too bound up with the joys of

I don't understand this example, are women experiencing or creating trouble?
(probably both) :)
But I think your argument goes like this: since human life is very
intricately connected with all the kinds of pain we experience, removing all
pains would mean removing a good deal of what gives us the opportunity to
experience pleasure as well (to remove the cancer you must remove a lot of
good tissue too); removing pain would mean removing good part of all we

This is a frequent argument and I am at work so regardless of whether it is
what you meant let me analyze it in due depth.

As I said in my last message I believe you can be happy about something even
if you have never suffered because of its loss. I personally would gladly
part with "I am happy because I won and others have lost" and take a milder
"I am happy because we all won". In this case removing evil has removed a
bit of good which comes to the individual when everyone else (except the
person in question) experiences evil but this IS the better scenario. You
can't very well create good for everyone when good comes from others getting
smacked. I am also happy to part with "how good it feels when your head
stops hurting!" and take a "my head doesn't feel good nor bad I am just used
to having no headache problems" plus an added bonus "I can reprogram my
embedded nanites anytime to experience intense dopamine release similar to
mammalian brain cessation-of-pain situations". In this case we preserve the
ability to experience the pleasure that accompanies the cessation of pain,
AND get rid of the pain. I mean, when we have no headache anymore life
doesn't stop there, you can go ahead and try a million more fancy and
rewarding qualia that will make you forget about "how good it feels when
your head stops hurting".

So I do not see any reason to preserve even one painful experience. Right
now our situation is hopeless, we are subject to any nasty chemical our body
wants to secrete. And, it may help some to justify in some way this evil
that imbues our lives, to make it more bearable (giving things a reason to
be makes them inevitable and puts them outside of our scope of attention:
kids get killed by bombings, but the way of the lord are mysterious so it's
still a sad business but the anger is gone). But ultimately "taking away
suffering deprives us of this and that" is equivalent to a "taking away
suffering creates suffering" argument and if we have taken away suffering it
can't possibly be created. Concretely speaking: eliminate the need to have
things that can only be obtained through pain, do whatever, I mean this is
what it's all about we are going to have control. How many ways are there to
crack software protections? I tried them all, each one works most of the
time, do the same with the brain, eliminate stupid needs, satisfy them
through the backdoor, make it believe they are satisfied, eliminate the
coupling between these and the pain supposedly needed to create them... If
you can't figure out a way make an AI who can.

You don't have to take the crap nature secretes for you any longer. It's
gonna be fun, good and long lasting, a care-free positive satisfying happy
existence, for everyone, forever, no compromise needed. This is not
paradise, it's the status quo. AFTER, we start talking about positive qualia
and orgasmium and music with 459 octaves 500 voices, paintings with 2
billion different colors, sex in 98 dimensions... (sorry the monkey here
just started talking about red bananas... I know we'll have better stuff
after we are augmented).

This said, we can think about the philosophical implications of removing
every little bit of pain AFTER we have gotten rid of the big bulk of pain
which is undoubtedly immoral. As long as we agree that this is the moral
thing to do and that hitler's opinion is _not_ just as valid.

Back to work .... <secretion:boring>squirt</secretion>


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