RE: Threats to the Singularity: Time...

From: Martin Moore (
Date: Fri Jun 14 2002 - 07:35:45 MDT

Hey Ben,

Does that include genetic programming?

I don't know how long it will take for us to write an
intelligently aware AI program.

Instead, as is currently becomming pretty vogue,
allowing the program to write itself might be a faster
approach, even though it seems 'inefficient' due to
its randomness. However, I still think that a lot of
these genetic models are good, but still focus too
heavily on creating "that one perfect seed". It's way
too top-down.

One of Warwick's students over at Reading, back a few
years ago, seemed to have the right approach. He took
the famous 'learning robots' from the lab and
downloaded their environment and their code into his
computer and carried out some robotic
evolutionary-type modelling. He managed to run through
generations so much quicker than the Cybernetics
Dept's classroom.

Unfortunately, I don't believe that the programs could
randomly mutate their own code. In addition, the focus
was evolving strategies to best survive in a "pen" in
one of the dept's classrooms. So, learned winning
behaviors became more advanced while the program did
not. Obviously, this is fun for only so long.

>From my perspective, a new approach to this method
could make real headway with relatively few lines of
code, many versions, access to a simple command
library, and a whole lot of computing power. And I
don't mean rewriting the entire program, or gen 1
redesigning itself from some grand plan. Just simple
changes, line by line, over time.

Are you aware of anyone working in this direction?

Re: Aaron's "mid-night hackers". I think that he's
right, especially in light of grid computing.
Computing power may be a stumbling block not for the
sake of the AI itself, but because GP requires so darn
many evolving programs to get any results in a
reasonable amount of time. The SETI software, though
not truly advanced grid, is a glimpse of how this
stuff will become accessable to all of us soon.


Time is on my side (Yes it is)
Time is on my side (Yes it is)
Now you always say that you want to be free
You're searching for good times, but just wait and see
You'll come running back...
Yeah, time, time time is on my side (Yes it is)
I said, time, time, time is on my side (Yes it is)
I said, time, time, time is on my side

--- Ben Goertzel <> wrote:

> However, as computers get faster and faster, and
> more and more useful AI
> tools are built, the task will become easier and
> easier.
> I have a seat of the pants estimate of the
> complexity of a seed AI, but Eli
> and others may disagree, and I have no proof, just
> intuition.
> I think we're talking about a few hundred thousand
> lines of C++ code, maybe
> 5-10 different specialized data structures, 10-20
> different specialized
> learning algorithms, and 100 configurable parameters
> altogether. Smaller by
> far than the Windows OS, but vastly harder to debug
> and tune...
> At any rate, if my Novamente approach works, this is
> roughly what we're
> talking about.

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