RE: Ben's "Extropian Creed"

From: Patrick McCuller (
Date: Mon Nov 13 2000 - 22:20:46 MST

> > The notion that ownership equals or contributes to
> > cleanliness is extremely arguable.
> Hmmm.... The national parks are pretty clean.... And there are plenty of
> privately owned
> toxic sludge swamps within 10 miles of where I live in jersey city.... But
> I guess technically speaking the point is ~arguable~ ;>

        I don't follow. The US federal government is the biggest polluter in the
world, even disregarding nuclear testing. Have you been to Utah recently?


> > Some
> > Libertarians say that charity at gunpoint is immoral.
> >
> > samantha:
> > By most definitions of morals it *is* immoral.
> No, by most definitions of morals, as standardly interpreted, government and
> taxation
> is NOT immoral, sorry.
> This is just a false statistical statement.
> The standard moral codes come from the standard religions, none of which
> were
> particularly anti-statist.
> I am not religious nor do I necessarily think standard moral codes are
> correct, but,
> these are the facts

        You're overlooking the fact that people are perfectly capable of maintaining
contradictory beliefs, and even more importantly people can hold unexamined
beliefs. People can hold the belief that taxation is not immoral without
examining it. Therefore it is false to say that 'people' believe taxation not
to be immoral simply because they have taken no action or expressed an opinion
to the contrary.


> Few in the US are truly starving or in physical poverty, as one finds in
> other nations.
> Yet the "poverty mentality" drags down millions of new kids in our country
> each year, into lives
> of violence and destructive drug use ... while
> we work toward providing their great-grandchildren with digital salvation ;>

        This must be untrue. The Census Bureau says there are 276,137,565 US
residents. In 1999 (I'm mixing figures but the number should be close enough
for conversation) 25.7 percent of them were under 18. How 'millions' of these
children could be adversely affected each year I don't know - surely
statistically nearly all of them would have been dragged down by age 16.

Patrick McCuller
> ben

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