Re: Res: Copying nonsense (was Re: [sl4] Uploading (was : goals of AI))

From: John K Clark (
Date: Sun Dec 06 2009 - 09:42:04 MST

On Sat, 5 Dec 2009 "Filipe Sobreira" <> said:

> One doesn't need to believe in the soul to verify
> that if they are two _observers_ then they're also part of the
> experience

I agree completely, provided of course that the premise is true and
there really are TWO observers. Or do you also have the crazy idea that
Filipe Sobreira is a noun?

> By the time the copy is created/instantiated both the copy
> and the original (doesn't matter if they know or not who's who)
> will be able to measure their positions regarding the other (a measurable quality)

How in the world are you going to measure absolute position? You must be
in a symmetrical room with your copy or you'd be seeing different things
and your exact copy would no longer be exact. Suppose I show you a
and claim that if you push it you and your copy will instantly change
positions. You both push the button and of course absolutely nothing
seems to have happened either objectively or subjectively. You can't
even tell if I was telling the truth, the button may be connected to
nothing, there is no way to know and no reason to care.

> and also they'll be able to tell themselves apart, just by
> poking themselves and verifying the other don't feel nothing.

Don't be silly, if you are an exact copy and you decide to poke yourself
then the original will want to also.

> of self'. If you don't believe or don't know what is a sense of self,

Everybody knows and believes in a sense of self although some may claim

> both copies are neuron by neuron identical, so
> they should be the same, but they aren't

And it still looks like bread and wine after a certain Roman Catholic
ritual but it's not, really it's the body and blood of Jesus Christ.

> the observer won't go away.

I have no problem with the idea of an observer, I have a problem withe
TWO identical observers.

> Lots of people around, and that includes the most famous _troll_ of this list

Gee, I wonder who you could be referring to.

> like to believe themselves to be computer programs running in the brain.
> This is a quite extraordinary delusion, without any reasonable foundation.
> It is a blind dogma, not worse of those held by many religions, Abrahamic or not.

What a devastating retort! I'm known for despising religion so accuse me
of being religious. Wow, I never heard that one before!

 John K Clark

  John K Clark

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