Re: [sl4] Re: goals of AI

From: Matt Paul (
Date: Mon Nov 30 2009 - 16:50:49 MST

Ok, I agree but there are 2 things here.
1. It isn't mystic, it's just undiscovered. It's a sense, a gut, a
stupid human intuition backed up by a struggle to see how it could be
modeled without being observed.
And maybe it isn't so tough once you have the key... How can I know
until it's found?

2. Not a revision of the system, but an addition. It's just another
piece of said machine. Like adding thermodynamic thinking to
aerodynamic thinking when designing an aircraft.

I'm not saying it isn't possible to model it. I'm asking is it
possible? And I don't think that answer is knowable until it is found.

There may be more than one something we have to consider, but the big
one I see is the human imagination.

On Nov 30, 2009, at 4:59 PM, mindbound <> wrote:

> The point, as far as my understanding goes, is: Why assume that in
> system exists factor X, which is unfathomable and transcendent, a
> factor which asks for a major revision of the system and which
> quite probably is balancing on the margin of mysticism, IF WE ARE
> ALREADY MAKING QUITE FINE PROGRESS with the explanation of the
> system's workings WITHOUT THAT FACTOR?
> I can understand introduction of new variables when it is needed, but
> I do not see here this situation. If you insist there is something in
> the consciousness we cannot explain with our current instrumentarium,
> maybe you should be more precise in your claims and provide details
> about that something.
> In my opinion, there just is no need for revisiting the entire
> method as
> long as it is working well.
> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 04:36:06PM -0600, Matt Paul wrote:
>> On Nov 30, 2009, at 3:35 PM, "John K Clark" <>
>> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 "Matt Paul" <> said:
>>>> You are stuck on this damn soul thing. It's aggravating.
>>> The truth can be painful.
>>>> I don't know why you insist that everyone is stuck in some sort of
>>>> medival way of thinking.
>>> You're talking about something that the scientific method cannot
>>> detect
>>> that is nevertheless of enormous importance, just like the soul.
>> Why do you assume that the scientific method cannot detect it just
>> because it hasn't so far. I'm not talking about something immortal
>> like the soul you speak of. It probably isn't unique either, but you
>> can't duplicate it until you find it. Until you find it so you can
>> duplicate it, you will not be duplicating human intelligence.
>> ** ACCEPT: CRM114 PASS osb unique microgroom Matcher **CLASSIFY
>> succeeds; success probability: 1.0000 pR: 29.9166
>> Best match to file #0 (nonspam.css) prob: 1.0000 pR: 29.9166 Total
>> features in input file: 3392
>> #0 (nonspam.css): features: 60227, hits: 33189, prob: 1.00e+00, pR:
>> 29.92#1 (spam.css): features: 33026, hits: 29536, prob: 1.21e-30,
>> pR: -29.92
> --

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