From: Robin Lee Powell (email@example.com)
Date: Thu Oct 15 2009 - 11:50:03 MDT
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 10:25:23 -0700
From: John K Clark <firstname.lastname@example.org>
To: sl4 sl4 <email@example.com>
Subject: Re: [sl4] I am a Singularitian who does not believe in the Singularity.
On Thu, 8 Oct 2009 16:12:02 +0000, "Randall Randall"
> they're [FAI people] suggesting that there can and should be a highest-level
> goal, and that goal should be chosen by AI designers to maximize human
> safety and/or happiness. It's unclear whether this is possible
It's not unclear at all! Turing proved 70 years ago that such a fixed
goal (axiom) sort of mind is not possible because there is no way to
stop it from getting stuck in infinite loops.
In this, and other places, you've asserted that a mind that
continues to care for something long term must have a "fixed goal"
mind, and must therefore get stuck in infinite loops.
I've pointed out, repeatedly, that there are human minds that both
care for things long term and do not seem to get stuck in infinite
You have never responded to this claim, but that's what I was
I'm certainly not going to apologize for correctly paraphrasing you.
On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 09:38:33AM -0700, John K Clark wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 "Robin Lee Powell"
> <firstname.lastname@example.org> said:
> > You asserted that such a mind without a "fixed goal system" was
> > impossible,
> JESUS CHRIST! I MOST CERTAINLY DID NOT!! I asserted that a mind WITH a
> "fixed goal system" was impossible.
> John K Clark
> and yet, 90+% of human parents raise their children
> > without ever getting bored and leaving them to die. Proof by
> > existence: many human minds succeed at this, and without getting
> > into infinite loops.
> > We only need to create one such mind; this isn't a random search
> > through mind space, any more than you get a car by randomly throwing
> > molecules together.
> > -Robin
> > --
> > They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons."
> > And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something
> > other than the default outcome?" See http://shrunklink.com/cdiz
> > http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/
> John K Clark
> http://www.fastmail.fm - One of many happy users:
-- They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons." And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something other than the default outcome?" See http://shrunklink.com/cdiz http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/
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