From: Mu In Taiwan (mu.in.taiwan@gmail.com)
Date: Tue Oct 13 2009 - 13:24:05 MDT
I'm quite frustrated with JC's inability to:
- Respond to criticism productively, rather than simply quote small parts
selectively and assert 'bullshit' or "like hell it doesn't" etc. as a form
of response, describing suggestions from other posters as "total crap"
and "incredibly idiotic"without giving a clear explanation of why this is
that case.
- Maintain a position consistently.
- Provide definitions of the vocab he's using, or present any
proof/reasoning to support the truly gigantic claims he is making about
future human ability to produce minds and the vulnerabilities they will
have.
- Apparent pride in his ignorance, and inconsistence within paragraphs:
quote: "but I don't give a hoot in hell what Unix says,
it can't produce true random numbers either." ... (then seconds later) ...
"Perhaps the Mac does have such a separate gadget nowadays, I don't know nor
do I much care.
- Lacks the ability to even read his own writing, apparently. Example:
Mu:
> The halting problem is not what you think it is. As far as I am aware,
> is quite possible to show that *some* algorithms will or will not halt"
JC:
"No shit Sherlock, if it were not true *all* algorithms would be useless."
Mu:
> 2. Absolute rubbish. There are algorithms and heuristics that are used
> despite our inability to predict their run-times accurately."
JC: "What I was saying was that if no algorithm halted then all algorithms
would be useless."
--- JC, can't you realise that what you actually said (a claim about our
ability to prove things and the consequences) and what you claim you said (a
claim about behaviour of algorithms and the consequences) are different?
-- Also. besides asserting "minds" are subject to the limits of turing machines, JC asserts that infinite loops are the biggest problem in AI. Evidence: "> Since this seems to have degenerated into talking about infinite loops" "Why "degenerated"? it you're taking about AI nothing is more important." So here is a simple request for evidence. General purpose computers have been in use for over half a century. Therefore, JC, please provide samples of real world computers or computer programs that have been trapped in an infinite loop for more than say, 5 years. If this problem is as serious as you imagine it to be, i.e. the most important challenge for AI, then this evidence should be trivial to provide in abundance. On the other hand, if you can't provide the evidence... well... an infinite loop that cannot even last 5 years does not seem very... infinity-ish. Nor very threatening. I expect that you will simply ignore this request and instead selectively quote small parts of my message with phrases such as 'bullshit', as before. Mu p.s. I note that in addition to having the physical 'true' randomness capabilities that you deny the existence of, my Mac also has some ability to detect programs that have gone into some forms of deadlock or loop, and have stopped responding to signals from the OS. It labels such programs 'not responding'. Quite remarkable really, given that you seem to imagine it is impossible. Also, if you would like a sample of data from my Mac's /dev/random device, to test it for a statistical lack of randomness, then I would be happy to provide it. Alternatively, we could have a competition: I will provide you with a sample of data from my Mac of the length you desire, and you can predict the next 50 outputs? I expect that you will not take up this challenge, as the tone and content of your posts suggest that you are not merely ignorant, you are willfully ignorant. p.p.s. Is there a system on this mailing list to remove trolls? I am leaning towards the suggestion of a previous poster, that this forum might benefit from being moved to a web-based system like LW where disruptive material can be dealt with more effectively.
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