Re: Simulation Argument

From: Edward Miller (
Date: Sun May 21 2006 - 17:13:13 MDT

I am pleasantly surprised at how many replies this recieved.

I have not read any convincing refutations, but there was some interesting things to think about.

"x unless y" does mean that x is mutually exclusive with y. Thus, his conclusion is false.

Some of you thought Bostrom did take into consideration that some post-singularity ET would create simulations, and that others would not. My point in writing that was that the statement was worded poorly, and possibly exposing a Modernist perspective that progress is one path. What happens to the argument if exactly 50 percent of post-singularity ET create simulations?

Somebody also mentioned that post-singularity ET are bound to the laws of universe and thus cannot be all that strange. We already know that life can be based off of other compounds than DNA, such as xDNA. I see no reason why it could not be based off of a multitude of other molecules as well, which would allow for completely different functioning.

Keith Henson <> wrote: At 02:09 PM 5/21/2006 -0500, Damien wrote:
>At 10:58 AM 5/21/2006 -0400, Keith Henson wrote:
>>The modern concept of simulations goes back at least as far as
>>_Simulacron-3_, 1964 by Daniel F. Galouye ...
>>"Probably influenced directly by Philip K. Dick's Truman Show-esque novel
>>Time out of Joint, Simulacron-3 can be rightly regarded as the first
>>description of virtual reality, even if the topic was already treated
>>more than two thousand years ago in Plato's allegory of the cave."
>No; oddly enough, TIME OUT OF JOINT is one of Phil's fictions where the
>ontological discontinuity actually *isn't* the case; it is an induced
>hallucination in the protagonist.

Just quoting the Wikipedia. Appreciate the correction.

>Before the Galouye (which is certainly a significant elaboration of the
>simulation posit) was Fred Pohl's extremely pivotal story "The Tunnel
>Under the World", GALAXY magazine, Jan 1955.

Hmm. You might want to fix the Wikipedia page. Or send me text and I will
fix it.

>I've played with versions of the idea in two recent novels, GODPLAYERS and

Will try to get and read them.

It kind of got away from me in that chapter I posted. I was trying to
refute the idea expressed in various transhuman forums that people would
never upload. Of course they would if you made it attractive, reversible
and sold it to them "on the gradient." The problem is if you make
something attractive enough to suck in 90% of the population, a minor
miscalculation and the whole population is gone.


>Damien Broderick

Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1&cent;/min.

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