Re: My definitions of Intelligence, Consciousness, Mathematics and Universal Values

From: Marc Geddes (
Date: Tue Jan 31 2006 - 21:52:18 MST

--- Richard Loosemore <> wrote:

> AI is certainly not "pure mathematics".
> And it is not even mathematics, unless you count
> experimental or
> empirical mathematics (and some people don't).
 Richard Loosemore

  If (as I do) one adopts some form of Platonism, then
mathematical entities are not just social creations
but exist 'out there' in reality. One could go
further aka Tegmark and equate mathematics (Platonia)
with the underlying fabric of reality itself from
which all other properties somehow emerge. Since
ideally we'd like an AGI to over time approach the
status of a 'Universal reasoner' (in the sense of
being able to reason under any many domains in reality
as pragmatically possible), and if mathematics is the
fabric of reality itself, then it's not implausible
that understanding the nature of mathematical
reasoning could be the key to AGI.

My final wacky theory of consciousness (which I
suggested in my earlier threads) is that consciousness
(or 'Qualia') is ultimately a particular mathematical
property - the property underpinning all reality. I
also made the radical suggestion that mathematical
truth may not be fixed - that some truths are time
dependent. And I equate the particular mathematical
property that is consciousness precisely with this
'shifting' of math truths. In other words, my idea is
that Qualia *are* simply math truths shifting (see my
earlier threads on 'mathematical causality').

I set out to discover the *general* conceptual
philosophical principles underpinning reality. My
theory is basically now completed. I did it to the
very best of my ability. So my mission is basically
over. Essentially my philosophical odyssey is at an
end. Either I got it exactly right or it's all shit

And of course, needless to say I've long long since
out-stayed my welcome on this mailing list ;) So this
really will be my post here (seriously). Also, as
I've long promised, I am also *publicly* retiring from
anything related to AGI/Singularitary. (Though you
should note that word *publicly*) The 'players' are
mean, nasty and way too clever for me ;) It really is
time for me to bow out.

However, the rhyme below sums up my final position on
the consciousness puzzle in a fun way. I contrast my
position with that of other famous philosophers. One
last attempt from me at SL4 infamy. Farewell and good

'The Mathematico-Cognition Rhyme'
by Marc Geddes

'Consciousness had all philosopher's perplexed
In disagreement all were hexed
Except that from supernatural explanations
none any longer took heart
Given that Ryle had exorcised the ghost of Descartes'

'Eliminate this talk of Qualia! called Dennett and
Minds made of meat! chimed in Minsky
Material processes are all that's there
and in objective science only should we care
This consciousness contortion is just folk-lore

No! It's Mathematico-Cognition don't you know, cried

'Patterns alone are not sufficient, called Searle
A Chinese room is mere syntax so seeming
Mere shuffling of symbols cannot produce meaning
Consciousness must ooze, he said,
from specific material in the head'

No! It's Mathematico-Cognition don't you know, cried

'Awareness, said Chalmers, is not material
Upon the physical the phenomenal does supervene
but within mere matter consciousness cannot convene
Physics is Extrinsic, but the minds within,
I say that all concrete things have hidden mental

No! It's Mathematico-Cognition don't you know, cried

'The mind cannot be computational, called Penrose
Godel's theorem bars mere algorithms
from the mathematicians heaven
The mind is free to see truth,
and not bound by logical fallacy
Consciousness I tell you, calls for quantum gravity'

No! It's Mathematico-Cognition don't you know, cried

'In Plato's world,
The Mathematical forms did exist
The root source of everything they did consist
But unsuspected was the fact
that change and flux adhere even in abstract'

'Where truth has congealed there is comprehensibility
But some of the landscape defies sensibility
The great book of proofs is still being written
In the Platonic realms there is a rift
For in multi-dimensional time even mathematical truth
can shift'

'The mathematical motion does create
The physical, volitional and abstract substrate
This mathematical causality is consciousness in fact
The solution to the philosopher's consternation
The Holy grail, all are destined to hail'

It's Mathematico-Cognition don't you know cried Geddes
It's Mathematico-Cognition!

"Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last day”

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