**From:** Marc Geddes (*m_j_geddes@yahoo.com.au*)

**Date:** Tue Jan 31 2006 - 21:52:18 MST

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--- Richard Loosemore <rpwl@lightlink.com> wrote:

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*> AI is certainly not "pure mathematics".
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*>
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*> And it is not even mathematics, unless you count
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*> experimental or
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*> empirical mathematics (and some people don't).
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*>
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*>
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Richard Loosemore

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If (as I do) one adopts some form of Platonism, then

mathematical entities are not just social creations

but exist 'out there' in reality. One could go

further aka Tegmark and equate mathematics (Platonia)

with the underlying fabric of reality itself from

which all other properties somehow emerge. Since

ideally we'd like an AGI to over time approach the

status of a 'Universal reasoner' (in the sense of

being able to reason under any many domains in reality

as pragmatically possible), and if mathematics is the

fabric of reality itself, then it's not implausible

that understanding the nature of mathematical

reasoning could be the key to AGI.

My final wacky theory of consciousness (which I

suggested in my earlier threads) is that consciousness

(or 'Qualia') is ultimately a particular mathematical

property - the property underpinning all reality. I

also made the radical suggestion that mathematical

truth may not be fixed - that some truths are time

dependent. And I equate the particular mathematical

property that is consciousness precisely with this

'shifting' of math truths. In other words, my idea is

that Qualia *are* simply math truths shifting (see my

earlier threads on 'mathematical causality').

I set out to discover the *general* conceptual

philosophical principles underpinning reality. My

theory is basically now completed. I did it to the

very best of my ability. So my mission is basically

over. Essentially my philosophical odyssey is at an

end. Either I got it exactly right or it's all shit

;)

And of course, needless to say I've long long since

out-stayed my welcome on this mailing list ;) So this

really will be my post here (seriously). Also, as

I've long promised, I am also *publicly* retiring from

anything related to AGI/Singularitary. (Though you

should note that word *publicly*) The 'players' are

mean, nasty and way too clever for me ;) It really is

time for me to bow out.

However, the rhyme below sums up my final position on

the consciousness puzzle in a fun way. I contrast my

position with that of other famous philosophers. One

last attempt from me at SL4 infamy. Farewell and good

luck!

'The Mathematico-Cognition Rhyme'

by Marc Geddes

'Consciousness had all philosopher's perplexed

In disagreement all were hexed

Except that from supernatural explanations

none any longer took heart

Given that Ryle had exorcised the ghost of Descartes'

'Eliminate this talk of Qualia! called Dennett and

Churchland

Minds made of meat! chimed in Minsky

Material processes are all that's there

and in objective science only should we care

This consciousness contortion is just folk-lore

illusion'

No! It's Mathematico-Cognition don't you know, cried

Geddes

'Patterns alone are not sufficient, called Searle

A Chinese room is mere syntax so seeming

Mere shuffling of symbols cannot produce meaning

Consciousness must ooze, he said,

from specific material in the head'

No! It's Mathematico-Cognition don't you know, cried

Geddes

'Awareness, said Chalmers, is not material

Upon the physical the phenomenal does supervene

but within mere matter consciousness cannot convene

Physics is Extrinsic, but the minds within,

I say that all concrete things have hidden mental

twins'

No! It's Mathematico-Cognition don't you know, cried

Geddes

'The mind cannot be computational, called Penrose

Godel's theorem bars mere algorithms

from the mathematicians heaven

The mind is free to see truth,

and not bound by logical fallacy

Consciousness I tell you, calls for quantum gravity'

No! It's Mathematico-Cognition don't you know, cried

Geddes

'In Plato's world,

The Mathematical forms did exist

The root source of everything they did consist

But unsuspected was the fact

that change and flux adhere even in abstract'

'Where truth has congealed there is comprehensibility

But some of the landscape defies sensibility

The great book of proofs is still being written

In the Platonic realms there is a rift

For in multi-dimensional time even mathematical truth

can shift'

'The mathematical motion does create

The physical, volitional and abstract substrate

This mathematical causality is consciousness in fact

The solution to the philosopher's consternation

The Holy grail, all are destined to hail'

It's Mathematico-Cognition don't you know cried Geddes

It's Mathematico-Cognition!

"Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last day”

____________________________________________________

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**Next message:**Kevin Osborne: "Re: Syllabus for Seed Developer Qualifications [WAS Re: Some considerations about AGI]"**Previous message:**Mitchell Porter: "Re: Chris McKinstry (1967-2006)"**In reply to:**Richard Loosemore: "Re: My definitions of Intelligence, Consciousness, Mathematics and Universal Values"**Messages sorted by:**[ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] [ attachment ]

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