RE: Free Will not an illusion..

From: fudley (
Date: Wed Dec 28 2005 - 02:36:27 MST

On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 "Remy Webb" <> said:

> I would define freedom as a complete degree of separateness
> from any other objective structure or will. In that sense,
> there is no such thing as "free will" for humans or any
> other sentient beings save G-d.

My definition of free will is not always knowing what you will do next,
and it leads to the exact opposite conclusion from yours.

For the mind to totally understand itself it must form a perfect
internal model of itself. The model must not only describe the rest of
the mind in every detail but it must also depict the model itself with a
micro model. This micro model must represent the rest of the brain and
the micro model itself with a micro micro model. This path leads to an
impossible infinite regress. Both the brain and the model must be made
up of a finite number of elements. If we are not to lose accuracy the
components of the brain must have a one to one correspondence with the
elements of the model. But this is impossible because the brain as a
whole must have more members than the part that is just the model.

This argument does not hold if the mind is infinite, that is if
it has an infinite number of segments. It would be possible to find a
one to one correspondence with a proper subset of itself; for example
you CAN find a one to one correspondence between the set of odd integers
with the set of all integers. Thus an infinite intellect could predict
all its actions without error.

So we are lead to the interesting conclusion that man has free will but
GOD does not.

By the way, G-d? I thought Lord Voldemort in the Harry Potter novels was
the only Man Who Must Not Be Named.

> individual humans do not possess a true free will completely
> separate from the other humans in society.

I don’t understand why anyone would even want “free will” as you have
described it. I don’t want my decision to break into a run or not to be
completely unaffected by the fact that an angry Rhinoceros is charging
right toward me.

John K Clark


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