impotent disorganized gods?

From: Phillip Huggan (
Date: Sat Dec 24 2005 - 21:36:15 MST

If you are concerned about a promoting FAI, then you are concerned about stopping AIDS and hunger (among other things) if they are encompassed by FAI. So shouldn't a Type VII be concerned with helping all single universes (among other things). You state that this would be a futile effort. Maybe for a Type VI it would be, but don't Type VIIs have the ability to arbitrarily affect universes? If not, it should be possible to code information in an "evolutionary" universe that can be accessed by civilizations with the appropriate tools. We see no evidence of this.
  I don't see how the depth of our philosophy can advance. Nietzsche forwarded some details of how a god should live; a being with 100% free-will. He didn't know how to get there. The problem is that the Type VIIs you describe have no reason to create multiverses in the first place, if they are so much more advanced than we are. If they do create universes with conscious observers, we know to judge the benevolence of their actions measured using utilitarianism.
  Weak Anthropics and General Relativity observations suggest the physics underlying the formation of our universe is so fragile, that Type VII gods really can't exist at all. Change (evolve) the characteristics and constants of our universe even just a tiny bit, and nothing of value forms at all. At best, we find a large Tiplerian infinite energy source or a small everlasting Freeman Dyson (limited # of conscious observers admitted) end-of-universe energy source. I'm pretty sure safely discovering the ultimate depths of our universe's "oil-wells" will constitute the main activity of value post-singularity. Until we know how many (if any) souls can dance forever, I don't think it's wise to have AGI tile a whole bunch of conscious beings. Even the ethics of a Tiplerian environment will probably resemble ours more than Type VII's. Here's why: there is no way for a finitely bounded consciousness to achieve infinity. The tools available to an AGI bump into (Hawking) Singularities
 at every attempt to tile an infinite consciousness. Once down here, you're stuck here just as a slower than light-speed particle can never accelerate to become a tachyon. Maybe there is an infinite realm but we are all too human.

pdugan <> wrote:
  By analogy, I'm not concerned with curbing the AIDS epidemic or ending
world hunger, I'm concerned with promoting a friendly singularity, because the
latter encompasses the former. Likewise, a Type VII civ wouldn't be concerned
with helping a single universe when there are potentially infinite universes
just like ours, it would be a futile effort. Instead, such a civilization's
concerns would be better suited with the overall integrity of the system,
which being evolutionary, is heterogeneous.

> Our philosophy is actually quite advanced.

Really? We may have thorough epistemological frameworks appropriate for our
brains in our physical situations, but a philosophy appropriate for the brains
of a Power or beyond in the context of an infinite multiversal system would be a horse of an altogether different color, don't you think?

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