Re: KILLTHREAD: Do SL4's support the war in Iraq?

From: Tennessee Leeuwenburg (
Date: Tue Nov 01 2005 - 20:05:07 MST

This is not SL4. I don't find it particularly distasteful, but neither
do I think it has anything to do with the purposes of this list.

Perhaps interested parties could communicate off-list now that the topic
has had some airing.


H C wrote:

>> From: "Eliezer S. Yudkowsky" <>
>> Reply-To:
>> To:
>> Subject: KILLTHREAD: Do SL4's support the war in Iraq?
>> Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 10:43:49 -0800
>> H C wrote:
>>> (As a side note: This is also my reasoning for supporting the war-
>>> it is a powerful factor in the globalization process which has so
>>> powerfully benefited humanity thus far)
>> You should know better than to even post with a subject line like that.
>> Eliezer Yudkowsky,
>> SL4 List Owner
> On what basis can you possibly justify saying that?
> It seems to me that the war in Iraq was drastically better than the
> alternative.
> 1. Ultimately less death
> 2. ultimately less pain
> 3. more fairness in government
> 4. freer people
> 5. more knowledgable people (more, cheaper, technology and communication)
> etc, etc, etc
> Or maybe you thought I meant, war in general = good. I don't know if
> what I was writing was just completely incomprehensible or what. My
> point was that those society restructuring events, such as war and
> nation building, had extremely powerful effects, and I also said the
> United States used this in a particularly beneficial manner (at least,
> from what I see, in Iraq. The epitome of the opposite being our
> blunder in Vietnam).
> Furthermore, does the (imo presumptuous) disagreement with my ultimate
> "side-note" conclusion completely nullify everything in the essay? War
> = good really doesn't relate at all to the essay, except where War =
> good. The point about war was simply that it is a powerful society
> restructuring event, with powerfully beneficial potential (but only
> where [death+!war]>[death+war]). *Dramatic society restructuring is
> most difficult in those societies in which war is justified, in any
> way short of actual war.*
> Four people dismissed the entire idea as if it were the most
> distasteful concept they had ever witnessed, and that confuses me more
> than anything. If the list won't stand for it, y'all at least message
> me offlist to explain why everything I said was so completely ridiculous.
> I'm confused.
> --Th3Hegem0n
>> --
>> Eliezer S. Yudkowsky
>> Research Fellow, Singularity Institute for Artificial Intelligence

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