Re: My attempt at a general technical definition of 'Friendliness'

From: Marc Geddes (
Date: Fri Jan 21 2005 - 21:11:44 MST

 --- Thomas Buckner <> wrote:
> I agree with just about everything Harvey
> Newstrom says, and am especially impressed with
> the definition scheme he presents; but I do have
> some disagreement as follows:

I (Marc) was the one trying to come up with a
definition scheme. Harvey was giving a critique.

> --- Harvey Newstrom <>

> >
> > Besides requiring the universe to be a mind,
> > your definitions seem to
> > require a Tipler-type omega point to occur for
> > your definition. Since
> > this is unknown and unproven at this point, it
> > sounds like your
> > definition must be unknown or unproven for now
> > as well.
> I learned a great number of useful things from
> Tipler's book The Physics of Immortality, however
> his Omega Point depends on a subjectively
> infinite energy source derived from controlling
> the collapse of a closed-geometry universe. Since
> this book was published we have learned that our
> universe is flat, open and inflationary. No shear
> energy, just a heat death, unless some of the
> escape ('leakage') schemes Michio Kaku has
> recently written about can be made to work. In
> the end, any FAI or UFAI for that matter will
> take a deep interest in such schemes.

I don't think the general concept of an Omega Point
neccesserily implies Tipler's particular scheme. As
you point out, it appears that the specific model that
Tipler gave his book has been falsified by empirical

The general condition for an Omega Point is simply
that the average rate of information processing per
unit space approaches infinity in bounded time. There
could be many different ways that this could come


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