From: Thomas Buckner (email@example.com)
Date: Sun Jun 27 2004 - 20:52:12 MDT
--- Simon Gordon <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
> --- Thomas Buckner wrote:
> > That last scenario is interesting, but as it has not
> > happened in realtime it is not, strictly speaking
> > information.
> What is realtime? Im a believer in quantum multiverse
> theory so in my view all conceivable future scenarios
> happen in at least some Everett branches. Some are
> more probable than others, but they're all equally
> real. Also, in my eyes, everything can be seen as
> information - not just scenarios and opinions, but
> entire material universes can be reduced to lumps of
> information - so what is NOT information?
Actually, I agree with every word of that, so you got me.
> > Example: If you can find an unbutchered version of
> > Terry Gilliam's Brazil, you see Jonathan Pryce
> > rescued from a torture chamber by swashbuckling
> > non-union plumber Robert De Niro. Pryce ends up in
> > the far north living in a truck camper with his lady
> > friend. In 'reality' his body is still strapped to
> > the chair and everything after that is a fantasy. He
> > stares catatonically into the distance and the
> > torturer says, "We lost him." The End.
> Thanks for the recommendation! Ive just put in a bid
> for it on Ebay (i saw a trailer of Brazil awhile ago
> and wanted it but forgot to order it).
Sorry for the spoiler. Every Gilliam film is great. See them all. He's the Philip K. Dick of the
> > Now, Pryce has escaped into a dream, but it's the
> > only escape possible, and for him it's a happy
> > ending of sorts. Is that the sort of mental illness
> > your scenario posits?
> Well not really, by use of the phrase "mental illness"
> i was referring to something that couldnt be classed
> as an adequent alternative to consensual normality.
> The device may be addictive but that doesnt mean the
> resultant mental illness is a particularly pleasant
> experience. I was also inferring that the rise in the
> proportion of mentally ill people in society was the
> cause of, either directly or indirectly, rocketing
> crime rates (although i didnt explicitly state this).
> This society eventually came to the opposite
> conclusion that you did i.e. that SOME sources of
> information SHOULD be limited.
> But the broader point was: sticking to any rule (even
> rules that seem harmless or good) is not necessarily
> the most enlightened way to live, because with any
> rule or moral code etc you will be able to pick holes
> in it or find counterexamples where it doesnt work.
> Needless to say, my "theory of morality" if you can
> call it that is very much inspired by Godel, but this
> type of thinking also arises naturally from studies of
> Taoism, or Eastern mysticism in general.
> Simon Gordon.
Again I agree with all that, even the parts about Tao and Godel, except:
*I dislike the word 'moral' as it is too vague and misused; I would propose substituting 'ethical'
wherever it appears since that word still has some clarity. I even have a character make the same
proposal in a novel I wrote five years ago.
*I still stick to my rule 'Never limit your souces of information' because it has never, never let
*And I would still be first in line for that chip because I think it would be safe ***as long as
it had no wireless connectivity or other way for malware, viruses or hackers to mess with my
brain!*** I think that would be the real source of problems. On the other hand, perhaps we will
soon be vulnerabe to that even without consciously adding a chip. Uh oh... Can open, worms
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