Re: Jaron Lanier

From: Yan King Yin (
Date: Fri Nov 28 2003 - 17:58:29 MST

From: "j.Maxwell Legg" <>
>Being new to the list and this is my first post, please
>don't tread on me. Most of your names are recognized from my
>experience seven years ago when I was on the extropy list.
>Let's just say that I've been busy developing my application.
>I read what Jaron Lanier had to say and was expecting to see
>the glaringly obvious but I was dumbfounded that it wasn't
>stated. So I will do it even though some of you will think
>I'm being tactless.
>My view is that Governments are like the little thing on top
>of the pressure cooker. The pressure in this discussion is
>none other than complexity and they let off steam in the
>form of chaos. In governmental terms this chaos is war
>My keyboard just jammed so I'll be brief. People like
>Stafford Beer knew of this chaos first hand and would have
>been closest to breaking through the complexity barrier. Who
>knows where we would have been today if his cybernetic
>revolution wasn't crushed by the CIA when they planned to
>murder Chile's Salvador Allende back in 1973. It is also my
>view that the mistakes were made hundreds of years earlier
>when Capitalism scarred human nature into this condition.
>Not Egyptian mathematics but Capitalism and the early
>Christian concepts of zero, and how the debit and credit
>system evolved into our present monetary systems, is what
>did us in. Not respecting zero as the inverse of infinity is
>what stops us. In their naivety, what those computer
>pioneers didn't get right was how to cope with the frailty
>and fear inherent in human nature; - spam, FUD, etc.


Yesterday I was chatting with someone in private about
Intel and how it has been involved with the militia (as did
IBM) and also about how they continually tried to exclude
the Japanese from participating in chip technologies.
This bothers me a lot because we need to understand
that technology is not separate from politics and those
who think that this is irrelevant are probably beneficiaries
of such questionable dealings.

Which doesn't mean that I'm the final arbitar of what is
right or wrong, but I think more discussion of this may
help, rather than letting innuedo trail off in random
directions and failing to communicate effectively.

Also I asked a question about fault tolerance in P4
which was purely technical. If we were to scale down
to molecular electronics operating in room temperature,
fault tolerance is quite essential.

'Government' doesn't necessarily need to be a bad
thing. Capitalism is a form of meritocracy which has
been quite successful in organizing large-scale
economic activities and division of labor. Unless we
find better ways to replace these things they are
unlikely to change.


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