Re: Emulated Realities (was Re: Rationalizing Suffering)

From: Mark Waser (
Date: Wed Apr 02 2003 - 13:49:58 MST

Paul Fidika wrote:
>> If your character dies in the game, but you are pulled out the instant
before death and experience no pain (or a minimal amount), but all the other
players believe that you are indeed dead and gone, then this is definitely
morally wrong, because presumably some of the other players will feel mental
anguish at your loss, which is suffering for them, even if their full
(non-blocked memory) selves consented to let themselves suffer in the game

Interesting. Well, I think that we definitely have a clear point of
disagreement. I would claim that if the full (non-blocked memory) selves of
the other players consented (with all appropriate and applicable informed
consent clauses - - and particularly if there were possible benefits) then
it would not be morally wrong. I'm interpreting your statement to mean that
you disagree. How would you answer a criticism from me as one of the other
players that you have effectively morally outlawed the game/sim and all of
it's potential benefits because you think that I shouldn't be allowed to
give permission allowing potential harmful (but limited) effects to myself?
My position is that such a "moral" outlawing is itself an immoral
restriction of my potential.

>> But an even more disturbing idea is this; what about the AIs living
within the game? When they "die," they're not pulled out, because they have
nowhere to go, so perhaps they regenerate (reborn, perhaps) somewhere else.

Nowhere to go? Of course they're pulled out (to the "place" they were
before the game/sim when they gave consent - - just like the human players).
Why would you even consider such a nasty thing as not pulling them out?

>> If this is a game though, it's certainly a very cruel one.

Or one where we can't make it better without ruining the potential of the
game/sim so our non-blocked selves have decided to bite the bullet and go
with it. And everyone else except you and I (including the Mongol invasion
and World War II) may just be background modelling (and you shouldn't be too
sure of me either . . . . :-)

>> If this really were a game, I doubt I'd come back and play it again after
I die and am "pulled out" of the game

I dunno. If I had a loved one whose existence depended upon this game/sim
(and particularly if the game/sim entailed no permanent harm to me - -
whereas their absence certainly would), I'd be willing to go through an
awful lot more abuse than I currently experience in this game/sim
(particularly as a coddled inhabitant of one of the richest areas in the
world with only an average amount of personal tragedy for that area).

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Wed Jul 17 2013 - 04:00:42 MDT