Re: Are we Gods yet?

From: Samantha Atkins (
Date: Wed Aug 07 2002 - 03:54:04 MDT

Cliff Stabbert wrote:

> Monday, August 5, 2002, 6:08:54 AM, Samantha Atkins wrote:
> <snip are-we-gods-yet q&a>
> SA> However, I think a lot better mileage can be had by showing
> SA> religious persons that all the things that the religions promise
> SA> can be acheived (where not total nonsense) ***only*** by science,
> SA> technology and sufficient human will and vision. If this was
> SA> shown a visceral enough level the old dogma and promise after
> SA> you die competitors should lose adherents by the church-full.
> [I'll leave aside the question of why you consider it important to 'win
> over' the religious except to question whether by now, most adherents
> to western religions don't already consider "good" inventions divinely
> inspired.]

They don't have to. What I want is to "win" as many converts to
the model of transcending current limitations through
science/technology as possible in order to insure there are more
brains, hands and dollars at work creating this future and less
chance of irrational obstruction of same.

> I've highlighted the word "only" in the above to point out that I
> disagree. To show that something is possible /only/ by method X
> requires showing it is impossible by any other method, which cannot be
> done.

A minor quibble in my paint point but change *only* to *best* or
drop it entirely if it makes it easier for you.

> Some theories and philosophies are immune to all attack: you cannot
> disprove solipsism, nor can you disprove that the universe and all
> our memories were created by a giant invisible green turtle three
> seconds ago.

I don't need to, do I? All I need to do is to show those who
believe in such that what they say the really want from the
invisible green turtle and friends can be theirs in real-time
without waiting for a mystic blow-out with said IGT.

> However, if you omit "only" in the above, i.e. if you can demonstrate
> positive results, those religious folks who would be inclined against
> any effort towards SI may be otherwise persuaded. Whether they
> reconcile that with their beliefs is a separate issue.

I suspect their relgions are driven in part by the desires to
transcend the relatively dismal human lot that have been present
in the species from the beginning. Show them how to do that and
how to help themselves to social benefits and worldview cohesion
type things they also get from religion without the relgious
artifacts and I think you will get more than a few "converts".

- samantha

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